Discussion:
[Flightgear-scenery] OSM finally under Open Database Licence
Maxime Guillaud
2012-09-12 18:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

The OSM foundation just announced that its data is now officially licensed under the ODBL:
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/12/openstreetmap-data-license-is-odbl/

Reading through the legalese, I think any scenery produced from OSM data now falls under
the "produced work" case of the license (section 4.3 from
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/), and therefore can be redistributed
under any license with just a notice about the origin of the data.

I can't wait to see OSM-based scenery integrated in the base package !

Maxime
HB-GRAL
2012-09-12 19:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maxime Guillaud
Hi all,
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/12/openstreetmap-data-license-is-odbl/
Reading through the legalese, I think any scenery produced from OSM data now falls under
the "produced work" case of the license (section 4.3 from
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/), and therefore can be redistributed
under any license with just a notice about the origin of the data.
I can't wait to see OSM-based scenery integrated in the base package !
Maxime
Hi all

For custom scenery developers: You have to be careful you download
recent OSM data under this new license and not using old one which can
be still under CC-BY-SA license. It will take some time all "data
centers" have updated their data. There are some regions where OSM lost
some coverage because of the license change.

Anyway OSM is a great project and also all FlightGear scenery developers
are invited to help to improve the map.
HB-GRAL
2012-09-21 13:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maxime Guillaud
Post by Maxime Guillaud
Hi all,
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/12/openstreetmap-data-license-is-odbl/
Reading through the legalese, I think any scenery produced from OSM data now falls under
the "produced work" case of the license (section 4.3 from
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/), and therefore can be redistributed
under any license with just a notice about the origin of the data.
I can't wait to see OSM-based scenery integrated in the base package !
Maxime
Hi all
For custom scenery developers: You have to be careful you download
recent OSM data under this new license and not using old one which can
be still under CC-BY-SA license. It will take some time all "data
centers" have updated their data. There are some regions where OSM lost
some coverage because of the license change.
Anyway OSM is a great project and also all FlightGear scenery developers
are invited to help to improve the map.
Jon Stockill
2012-09-13 15:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maxime Guillaud
Hi all,
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/12/openstreetmap-data-license-is-odbl/
Reading through the legalese, I think any scenery produced from OSM data now falls under
the "produced work" case of the license (section 4.3 from
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/), and therefore can be redistributed
under any license with just a notice about the origin of the data.
I can't wait to see OSM-based scenery integrated in the base package !
There isn't an ODBL licensed planet file yet, but I'm sure as soon as
one is available the landcover db will be updated.

A rather nice birthday present for me :-)
--
Jon Stockill
***@stockill.net
Eric van den Berg
2012-09-14 15:19:31 UTC
Permalink
For some time now I have suspected that srtmchop does not do its job
correctly. Two reasons:
1. At ELLX the VOR LUX, although placed at the correct lat/lon is
located at the foot of a hill which if it would be there in RL would not
improve nav signal reception. (ref:
http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/EDDF-ELLX.zip)
2. The north border of the geotiff files is 0 elevation over the entire
west-east line in the output files (*.arr.gz)

So I experimented a bit and to make a long story short I wrote something
that handles the data correctly. Called ascchop as it chops *.asc files
(from http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org) and not the geotiff-s (same data
though). Only works on linux and as I only know a bit of fortran written
in that language.
Let me know if interested.

So it looks like srtmchop somehow 'forgets' the entire south border and
shifts all elevation data 0.0008333 degrees south. Of course when it
gets to the north border, no data left and makes it all 0.

Cheers,

Eric
Eric van den Berg
2012-09-16 11:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Yves,
Post by Eric van den Berg
For some time now I have suspected that srtmchop does not do its job
1. At ELLX the VOR LUX, although placed at the correct lat/lon is
located at the foot of a hill which if it would be there in RL would not
http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/EDDF-ELLX.zip)
Hi Eric
As I understand this is "just" a slightly misplace VOR, isn’t it? You
can get the right location and submit this to xplane data source. Then
the right location will come to flightgear scenery data automatically
once, and will be available also for custom scenery builds.
http://data.x-plane.com/faq_designer.html
No, I think you misunderstand. The VOR is placed correctly. The Terrain
is wrong, the hill is shifted to the south. That is how my suspicion of
false elevation was raised in the first place.
Post by Eric van den Berg
2. The north border of the geotiff files is 0 elevation over the entire
west-east line in the output files (*.arr.gz)
So I experimented a bit and to make a long story short I wrote something
that handles the data correctly. Called ascchop as it chops *.asc files
(from http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org) and not the geotiff-s (same data
though). Only works on linux and as I only know a bit of fortran written
in that language.
Let me know if interested.
So it looks like srtmchop somehow 'forgets' the entire south border and
shifts all elevation data 0.0008333 degrees south. Of course when it
gets to the north border, no data left and makes it all 0.
Cheers,
Eric
I had a look to srtmchop once and I guess there are also other
problems with this "chopper". I don’t use it because all my tests
failed, I’m still using hgtchop which works like a charm. AFAIK
srtmchop was mainly thought for CGIAR data and is a side project,
hooking on CGIAR data it will produce scenery data that can’t be
distributed under common used FlightGear scenery data license (GPL).
1. I do not see why CGIAR data derived works cannot be published under
GPL. They just want to be mentioned in the credits and put no
restrictions on derived works what so ever. Therefore I (or anyone else)
using the data can put it under any licence they want. But I will sent
them an email to clarify.
2. Are you sure current official scenery is published under GPL? There
are certain things you need to do for that to happen. Like (quote from
GPL v2):
"For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis
or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have.
You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code.
And you must show them these terms so they know their rights."

When I download official FG scenery, be it from the homepage or
terrasync or I use it, there is never any notion that it is under GPL
and neither are "these rights shown to me". In my opinion the
prerequisites of the GPL v2 license are not met, so it simply is not GPL'd.
You can pull terragear source at http://www.gitorious.org/fg/terragear
and send a merge request to try to add your ascchop code. To be honest
I don’t know if it’s good practice to have this written in fortran and
have it available for linux only, but maybe you can send a merge
request there and ask for review? And maybe you can try to improve
srtmchop also, so your work comes to tools already there?
-Yves
Well good point. But I only know (a bit of) fortran, so I am unable to
improve srtmchop, sadly. The question is if we want to have a C program
that we know has a bug or a fortran program that works. I will try and
see to make ascchop work on windoze also as good as I can, but as I do
not have windoze, I will need a volunteer to test it!

Eric
HB-GRAL
2012-09-16 13:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric van den Berg
1. I do not see why CGIAR data derived works cannot be published under
GPL. They just want to be mentioned in the credits and put no
restrictions on derived works what so ever. Therefore I (or anyone else)
using the data can put it under any licence they want. But I will sent
them an email to clarify.
Hi Eric

http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org/SELECTION/SRT_disclaimer.htm

" [...] Users are prohibited from any commercial, non-free resale,
or redistribution [...] "

Note the term "commercial" and comapre to GPL. I guess you waste your
time with (another) try for clarification by email with cgiar.

-Yves
HB-GRAL
2012-09-15 20:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maxime Guillaud
Hi all,
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/09/12/openstreetmap-data-license-is-odbl/
Reading through the legalese, I think any scenery produced from OSM data now falls under
the "produced work" case of the license (section 4.3 from
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/), and therefore can be redistributed
under any license with just a notice about the origin of the data.
I can't wait to see OSM-based scenery integrated in the base package !
Maxime
Hi all

I sent some questions to
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licensing_Working_Group how the use of
OSM data for FlightGear scenery can/should fit the new license terms:

- How should "Attribution" take place with FlightGear scenery created
based on OSM data (i.e. is it sufficient to add a readme with OSM
attribution for scenery distribution or do we need to create a "OSM
texture" for roads ;-)

- When bigger parts of "raw" OSM data is cleaned and modified by scenery
developers for scenery production purposes: How the "share-alike" point
should be taken into account, which says that adapted data must be
offered under ODbL too.

I hope I will get some answers the next days or weeks and I will publish
this here of course. It might be interesting for official scenery
distribution, but also for custom scenery creators.

-Yves
HB-GRAL
2012-09-16 13:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by HB-GRAL
" [...] Users are prohibited from any commercial, non-free resale,
or redistribution [...] "
"... without explicit written permission from CIAT."
That makes a difference to me. In case you don't understand, they just want we ask permission.
Regards,
-Fred
Hi Fred

I have written permission from CGIAR to use the data for my maps, but I
didn’t get permission to change license or use it in a "commercial"
project. So you see I know from what I’m talking here.

But yes, start the discussion over and over and give it a try to release
cgiar data under GPL (which can’t exclude "commercial" in my opinion). I
will change my workflow immediately and use the GPL’d data of FlightGear
scenery developers ;-)

-Yves
Eric van den Berg
2012-09-16 14:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Well,

I wrote an e-mail anyway. To me it is not clear if

" [...] Users are prohibited from any commercial, non-free resale,
or redistribution [...] "


Is for the actual data they provide or also for "derived works" (thus if
there licence is viral to use a popular term).

Had another question also (on exact position of elevation data). Worst
thing that can happen is they say no.

Anyway as in last email I will try and make ascchop work for windoze
also, make a small description how to use and make a merge request to
terragear repo.

Cheers,

Eric
Post by HB-GRAL
Post by HB-GRAL
" [...] Users are prohibited from any commercial, non-free resale,
or redistribution [...] "
"... without explicit written permission from CIAT."
That makes a difference to me. In case you don't understand, they just want we ask permission.
Regards,
-Fred
Hi Fred
I have written permission from CGIAR to use the data for my maps, but I
didn’t get permission to change license or use it in a "commercial"
project. So you see I know from what I’m talking here.
But yes, start the discussion over and over and give it a try to release
cgiar data under GPL (which can’t exclude "commercial" in my opinion). I
will change my workflow immediately and use the GPL’d data of FlightGear
scenery developers ;-)
-Yves
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